Ep 37: A Conversation with Aurora LaFond a.k.a. Sister Outlaw

Aurora LaFond is a singer-songwriter from New York who spent some time in the foothills of Northern California. Aurora goes by the moniker Sister Outlaw.

Her music is folk (but not). Jazz (but not). And, it’s full of good stories.

Her new album, Dog Water released to all streaming platforms on June 27, 2026. Dog Water is full of themes of relationships. Relationships past. Current relationships. The hurt of past relationships. Coming to terms with the fallout of relationships. Celebrating what lies ahead.

Aurora is a professional Occupational Therapist and a gigging musician. She is completely content with living in both worlds and has no visions of leaving her career behind for her music. Enjoy this interview with someone who knows what they want in life and loves telling musical stories about their journey.

https://sisteroutlaw.bandcamp.com/

Aurora LaFond on Spotify

Aurora LaFond on Apple Music

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You are listening to the Gig to Live Podcast. Welcome everyone. I'm John Foles and I'm a full-time working musician. This podcast is about building a music life that holds up over time. It's practical, enjoyable, sometimes uncomfortable, but it's always about helping you stay in the game and actually enjoy the life that you're building. We'll meet some wonderful working musicians from time to time. So whether you're just getting started or you've been doing this for years, you're in the right spot. This podcast is for you. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Today we have a special guest. I get to talk to my friend Aurora LaFond, uh, who is best known as the name, perhaps uh Sister Outlaw, which is just a cool name. I just love that name. Uh, she's based in upstate New York, uh, though I met her gigging in Northern California, where she uh performs folk acoustic, you know, singer-songwriter kinds of tunes. She has a dog, as you can hear in the background right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Um three dogs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Three dogs. Oh my goodness. She uh previously played under the band name Philosophical Waffles, which also, I mean, kudos to you for multiple cool band names uh before she transitioned into her current solo project. I've seen Sister Outlaw three or four times now, maybe even more, uh, but and I've never seen her perform without a smile, which I think is an amazing thing. Uh, I've also seen her perform with a variety of musicians who uh join her on stage from time to time, and we'll talk a little bit about that. It's always a pleasure for me to talk to musicians like Aurora who are out there in the wild making the magic happen uh one stage at a time. So we're just gonna get into it. So, hey, welcome, Aurora. Yay!

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Uh oh man, the dogs are rambunctious this morning.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Yes, if uh they always are, yeah. There's a lot to see now that we're uh out of Colfax country. Now we're in the city, so there's there's lots of uh lots of sights to see, cars going by and and bicycles that they have to yell at to wear a helmet.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

So oh, so you guys were uh living in Colfax in Northern California, huh?

SPEAKER_03 2:23

Yes, yeah. So it's a very quiet neighborhood minus the occasional escape chicken.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

That's hilarious. Uh well, so now you're in, you know, New York. I mean, I met you there in California, you're in New York. Has has that challenged you in new ways, like maybe that you didn't expect, or what's the New York experience like as compared to NORCAL?

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Uh there's a lot less wineries, so that um that kind of takes down a lot of the venues that I had previously played at. Um I really didn't have anything lined up the same way that I had a a network and a community in in California. I feel like I would play one gig in California and I get four or five different emails to to come meet up over here or at least meet a new musician. So it's been a little bit um of a of a close circle. You kind of need to be in the in the know um with certain musicians, and people kind of hold their their cards closer to each other about oh, get in touch with this person out gigging because if they give them your contact, then they lose their position a little bit. But I'm I'm finding the niche. I um I play a lot at the at the bar that I work at, so that helps a lot as well to just kind of have that immediate in with um with the restaurant and to to pick the hours and to and to make that work. But uh I've been able to to kind of tap into old pieces when I used to live in in Vermont. Um I grew up in New York and then I went to school in New Hampshire and lived in Vermont. So I had a couple people reach out from Vermont gigs that I used to to play at. Um, so it's been fun to come back, but it is about a two-hour drive. So finding the really local spots has been a little bit difficult, but uh overall, you know, it's like when you move back to anywhere. Um it's it's an adjustment, things are different. There's new businesses where you thought you had a you know um a set in stone thing, and you go and you're like, oh great, that's a gas station. No, I had no idea.

unknown 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Have you noticed a difference in the the audiences? You know, are the are the people different? Because, you know, places have personalities.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yes. Um I really haven't noticed too much of a difference in people. I think you know, you you go, you go play at a bar, you go play, I've been playing at an ice cream shop too, down the road from me, you know, it's just a lot of the same kind of vibes of really super friendly families coming through. Um people just enjoying being in the scene. Um you know, I think the biggest piece is is the diversity, which um is really refreshing to see after being in Nevada City, where you know, there's not a whole lot of people of color. It's very much like one note um in the in the community. Um, versus here you can see all different walks of life. You know, you you sit on the I used to busk a lot too, so you really just see everybody and anybody walking by. So um, so that's been really refreshing too to have different cultures. I um I work with a a gentleman who's from Ghana and he plays, he's really locked into this um Ghana drumming scene too. So that's been really fun to kind of uh bounce off ideas with him and jam with him. And um so it's it's been really nice to kind of find that um you know that new sense of uh community out here as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, oh how fun. Uh no, you've got uh an album that's come no, your album came out now, right? It's uh is it out?

SPEAKER_03 5:51

It's um officially out on the 27th, but if you need to get your hands on it now, it's available on Bandcamp. Yeah, but it'll be streaming on everything uh June 27th.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

June 27th, okay. And uh I don't know exactly when this episode is going to air because I kind of stack these things up. So that's good though. That'll give everybody a you know kind of an idea of when we're actually talking here and we're we're real close to the release release date. So tell us uh tell us about that album. I mean, is there you know, tell us about like the themes that show up in the music and what it's all about and why you're excited?

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Yeah, absolutely. I um so I had flown out to visit my brother in Colorado, and we just we really had three days to just get everything all down, um, different tracks recordings. A lot of it has um stacked harmonies on it. So it was probably three or four hours of just the same oohs and ahs, but different keys going through it. And so he had the joy of listening to 500 tracks of the same thing over and over again. Um but uh the the main theme was I had written the songs throughout the course of five years when I was living in Vermont, leaving an abusive relationship, going across the country and just starting new, and just kind of the different stages of of kind of what that looks like when you're really officially, you know, that first stage of you leave somebody, you're still kind of got your foot in the door, you're still kind of seeing them, you're lying to your friends, you're not, you know, being upfront about what you're doing. So the song What I Said Before really kind of tackles that and has um kind of these, I don't want to say like spookier kind of themes, but it has like these like bone clacking kind of uh rhythm section to it. So it really just tries to take you on that journey of, oh my god, that feeling of I'm leaving, but I don't know if I'm ready, and this is you know, this is really strange. You're feeling embarrassed, you're feeling the shame cycle. And so, and then the song Pillow Talk is kind of that feeling of okay, I'm just gonna let this go. It doesn't feel good. I'm not experiencing what I need out of this relationship. I really think this is the time to turn the page, and um, you know, you're really left with you kind of pick up the bad habits that you're that were left in your last relationship and you're trying to set them down. And then it's kind of the the theme of you're you're going away from it and then you're finding something new and healthy to to replace that. So the last song, your ludomines about how I met my wife and how you kind of change in those those bad habits for for a sense of safety and stability, but still having that that same adrenaline dopamine hit that you do in the poorer choices, right? It's like it's switching out your cigarettes for celery sticks, basically.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

So well, that's an interesting uh metaphor. Oh, check that out.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

If you say full happy so you back on steps, everything results itself naturally.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Everything resolves itself, so it I you know, not a lot of albums have uh a thematic, you know, thread that runs through it, uh runs through them. But I mean they used to like that. Used to be a big deal of thematic albums. Um, but sounds like you really gave a lot of thought to making this kind of unfold like a book.

unknown 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah. Yeah. There was a a five-year gap from the first album when really the first one didn't have that that theme to it. And I think talking to my brother as well, he's uh an incredible musician in Colorado, and this is really his his bread and butter with um with producing music and and helping musicians really get that story go. So him and I kind of went head to head a couple times when he was saying, like, you need another verse for this. I'm like, how am I just gonna pull another verse, you know, out of out of thin air? He's like, No, you really need to do it. Kind of put that pressure on. We were able to kind of book it together, you need to rearrange this. So it's it's hard because you're critiquing something that's you know, your your personal music and and trying to kind of let that feeling go of like, okay, look, if if this is something I need to take his advice, he does this professionally, it's gonna sound so much better. And then, you know, just the sibling dynamic of, oh, you would think you're always right, you know, and then kind of that ego go down and say, Oh no, you really were right, Tom. It's almost like you do this for your job in your life.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

So that's that's awesome. And he uh plays music as well as produces?

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Yeah, he has his own solar project, and then he's also in a band called Banshee Tree. Um and they they tour all the time. They they always sell at the crazy horse when they're in in um California, but they uh but they're based out of Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Okay. And for those of you listening who may not know about that venue, the crazy horse is uh a venue that's been around a long time in the gold country, uh in the old mining town of Nevada City, California, uh, where both Aurora and I have played uh quite a few times. It also uh has a claim to fame because it's the bar I used to pick up my drunk dad at uh when I was a teenager. All of that stuff is is behind him, but there was a time in my life where the crazy horse meant something other than you know playing gigs there. So uh uh wow. That well, I can't wait to hear uh the entire album. I know I've I've seen little snippets of things that you're doing, little teases with uh with videos and and such, so I think that'll be fun. I I I mentioned earlier that I've seen you perform with a variety of musicians. I think every time I've seen you, there has been a different musician playing with you. And I'm wondering if you can speak into that a bit.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Yeah. In in my house, we almost had a um revolving door of people that would come through. My brother is five years, five years older, excuse me. So he had a a lot of musicians in his circle. He had his first rock and roll band when he was 15. So we had constant musicians, you need new people to come through. So we would always have um fires in our backyard. So we really just would have musicians come, they bring their guitars, they bring their instruments, they bring their, you know, instruments you've never seen before. We've I've seen a lot of melodicas, those any anything and everything. Um, so I'm I'm really so used to the um collection of just saying, well, you know, if you can do it, let's let's do it, let's let's jump on, let's let's play. Um so I've always had that inviting attitude about music, especially people are confident to say that I would love to jam with you. That usually means that they can do something, right? So I usually err on the side of let's go, let's do it. If you can, if you can just pick it up, let's let's rock and roll, let's do it. So um yeah, the the keyboard is that I had played for a while. I he just came to one of my shows in in Lincoln and he said, I have a keyboard in my car. I said, Well, all right, if it's walking distance, go grab it, come on up. And then it I was very pleasantly surprised. It's it's a it's a risk game of people saying, Oh, I can do this, and then they get up and they cannot do it. So you have to kind of use uh use a very uh I used to be a teacher, so using that empathetic kindergarten teacher kind of vibe of that was really great, but maybe the next one we can sit out and like maybe maybe I'll invite you back in, you know. So um I always think if it's you know, I don't I don't always like playing with myself up there. It gets boring. It's really it's something so so much more magical about playing with somebody else and and hearing things that are tapping into their creativity that you wouldn't be able to unlock yourself. So I I'm just always a big fan of inviting everybody and anybody up who wants to join.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

So wow. Yeah, that is super risky. I I will admit that for for me, I I I I don't take those risks usually. I have, I guess I've just seen a couple of train wrecks and it's made me a little bit gun shy. Um so I always and we've talked about that on uh different episodes of this podcast before too, where I have, you know, I I at least want to see them play somewhere. You know, if I've seen them on stage somewhere and I go, okay, they can do this. Yeah. Then um, but it's fun. I mean, you know, I guess you have to know the venue too, right? Because you you you don't really want to throw uh somebody who has the biggest heart in the world but kind of sucks as a musician uh up into a venue that's paying you to play the gig. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I've never seen it go bad when I see you. Everybody that has played with you. So uh I think that that's uh that's fun. That's cool that you have that that uh risky um you know kind of adventurous spirit in it. Uh do you have a particular like combination of musicians that you enjoy playing with the most? Like if you had to hand pick two or three kinds of musicians.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, I I think in a perfect world, um upright bass and some sort of wind instrument, whether it's you know, saxophone, flute, horns, something like that. I I love the sound of it. I used to play um with this guy, Trevor, and he was a phenomenal flute player, but then he also could play the bongos and he can do this, and he's um so he kind of has a Modge Podge of things that kind of come together, but uh I try to add percussion into the guitar anyway when I'm strumming. So there's not always the need for percussion, and that can sometimes go really south. Um, people are just not following what you're doing, and once you're off rhythm and things kind of tumble down. But if you have something, you know, like like backup vocal harmonizing, or you have horns or stuff like that, it's it's it usually works in my favor. And then upright bass, I just love the sound of it. There's just something so nostalgic about an upright bass in particular. Guitarist can also be hit or miss of, you know, who's souling over or what's you know, that that back and forth exchange. So I would say something that really adds an element that I just I am very confident that I cannot add myself, um, is really just the ideal spot. In my in my band Philosophical Waffles, when I was in college, um it was an all-girl band, and we had an upright bass player, and then my friend Katie, who I love her, but she was just learning how to play drums. So it was kind of uh it was she was going through that less is more feeling. So that was that was perfect. It was a nice little um cutesy little bands that we had. So um so yeah, I mean I would love to find that again um to just have a a full band. It just makes the world a difference, I think, in this sense.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

That's fun. Well, an upright bass just looks cool.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I mean, there is something to be said about the uh, you know, the visual aesthetic of a band out there. And uh so yeah, I can see that working well with you since I've seen you doing your thing. If you had to describe your own music, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Um I think it kind of falls in the category of folk, but not quite. So how Regina Spector has her anti-folk kind of um genre of music, I think I kind of fall into that dusty folk um, you know, level because I'm not quite country, but I do like singing, you know, old school Willie Nelson or you know, that kind of outlaw country. Um but then it has more of like a jazzier style with my voice. So I'd say that that kind of dusty, you know, barroom folk is is um probably how I would describe it.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

I don't know if barroom folk is uh like a recognized genre, but if it's not, it should be because that, yeah, that sounds right. And you do definitely have that jazzy influence in your voice. And a little, you know, I think you do that. Um I don't know how to describe this, it's kind of uh uh whispery, uh kind of I don't know, it's magical. I I like listening to your voice, it's really cool. It's it's fun. Uh if what do you think people assume about you when they see you play, listen to your music, and what kinds of things might they assume that you don't think are true?

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Um I've definitely had folks come up to me and tell me how to play guitar before they see me play guitar, um, and then they get a little bit quiet after I start performing. So I think there's there's definitely that element of of female musicians not being taken seriously as guitarists. You know, in in a in a singer realm, 100% people take female vocalists serious. Um but when it comes to guitar, I I feel like there's a lot of um sexism that that comes comes along with that. Um and so I've just you know you also get the same narrative like, oh well, like another Taylor Swift wannabe coming up and you know has an acoustic guitar and comes up. So I think I think people like to um, especially people that don't play music, love to to be awfully loud and uh awfully opinionated about about things before they see it. So I would say that's that's that's the biggest one is people just assume you're gonna play the the only four chords. You know, when you have an acoustic guitar. So um, yeah, I would say that's that's kind of the biggest issue that I've run into. Yeah, or people hear my voice and then it it sounds completely different than my singing voice. So um sure. I've I've definitely heard people like, I had no idea that was that that could come out of you.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

So that I could not imagine somebody approaching me before a gig and telling me how to play guitar before they e I mean, what does that even look like? And this is coming from, you know, I mean, I get it, white, privileged, you know, extremely good-looking, bearded fellow like myself. No, no, I I just can't, I cannot imagine that happening. Like, open up that world a little bit for me.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

You know, I think I think it almost comes from someone trying to just let you know that they play guitar. And I think some people really are reaching to make a connection that they think they're being helpful. So, or I I get hit with that the someone will just list every single guitar that they own. And I say, that's cool. Like, do you have it with you if you want to play? But if not, this is you know, it's not adding to it's almost like they'll try to one-up you before they see you play. Or I think a part of it's you might just be trying to create that conversation so they can, you know, either flirt with you, talk to you, open up that door. And um, it's really uncomfortable because you you want to stay face when you're when you're playing a show, right? You don't want to piss off the audience, you're not about to get into a fight right before you go up on stage. And it just, you know, at at this point, it's just a defense mechanism to just laugh it off and say, like, oh ha, like I sure know how to play a G. Thank you so much. That's really so helpful. Can't like I hope you stick around to listen to it, is really the only response that I can give um in a in a nice um get the fuck away from me kind of way.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Yeah. Wow. That's just uh that's just insane to me. Yeah. Well, it must be um, you know, you must feel some vindication, you know, after after a show if they've stuck around to listen. Do those people uh you know often come back and say I was an idiot or no, no.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

I've seen someone like temper tantrum out before. So um oh, you're kidding me. No, no, no. I think there's there's something that really hits um a dude's sense of embarrassment in that ego hit that it's it's too much, and then they walk away.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

So wow. That is just so so weird to me. I'm learning so much. I mean well, I like to uh change it up a little bit when people expect things about me when they've never seen me, and I actually like to do a Taylor Swift song for them, which is which is always fun to you know shift the axis of the room when somebody sees a middle-aged bearded guy playing Taylor Swift. Uh, I think it's endearing for most people, but I I have seen some guys like what the hell is this guy doing, you know? Uh, which is fun. I like to mess with those guys. And it's fun to catch those guys singing the lyrics.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Oh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

You know that that happens. Oh man. Well, okay. Let's talk about what you think you do really well. Like brag on yourself. What's your superpower as a musician performer?

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Uh I I don't often do this, but I really do like to um kind of trick the crowd a little bit. I'll do some mashups that you just would not expect. So you kind of get somebody on the hook and then you're going through and then you change it up. So I do really like to see like the people's faces change. I have I don't know, I don't know what it is, but sometimes I'll just hear a song and I'm like, oh, that's the same chords as this. Like I bet this would sound really interesting together. Um, let's bring it up a key. So I've definitely mashed up Miley Cyrus and Lauren Hill, which is dual that you wouldn't necessarily think of Tom Waits and uh Beyoncé. Um and then Jolene with um Ain't No Sunshine When She's Gone. So just kind of adding these, yeah, so adding these little things together really. I I think that's my superpower is hearing songs that would not go together and finding a way to kind of intertwine them and go. And I think it I think it makes things interesting, right? If you're especially a lot of these bar gigs, they really just say only play cover songs, only do this, you know, that you want to put this mark on that. So I think trying to approach it in ways that people aren't used to hearing it. So it's not just a dime a dozen regurgitating jukebox coming out of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

So yeah. I I know a lot of singer-songwriters uh uh like yourself, and I'm also a songwriter who I think, especially in the early stages of gigging when uh when a venue says, Hey, we just want you to play covers, they get their back up and they think, you know, that's not me, man. Yeah, I'm gonna, you know, make my way in the world. I'm a songwriter. Um I don't get that vibe from you at all. You're a great songwriter and you do covers as you embrace covers. Uh, you you want to talk a little bit about that, you know, being a songwriter and also being asked to play covers all the time?

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, a lot of these sets are about three hours, three and a half hours. And I just I simply don't have enough original material. So I think either way, I would have to spin in covers. And I'm gonna be the first one to say it. There are so many better songs that I could even imagine to write. So it's it's almost a badge of honor to really just hold this music that someone's poured their whole sart heart into and then kind of have your own version of it and to sing it out. And I think that's really special because I am constantly listening to music, I'm constantly absorbing new things, and and a lot of the covers that I play are are are are not super well-known artists either. So people don't really, you know, then you're kind of giving a chance to expose someone else to a song that's really touched your heart. Um, and I just I love singing songs, I love playing music. You know, there's there's no sense of, oh, I have to play exclusively mine. You know, nothing is really ever ours to begin with. So just having that um I love the opportunity to play Amy Winehouse. You know, I know that she's an amazing artist, and I won't be able to have the same struggles that she's had, or you know, to really have music touch her life and the way that she was writing the songs, but in the way that I can listen to the songs, I can express that out and kind of give it, you know, just a spin on something that everyone's heard and to have there's something really special about looking around and seeing other people sing along with you in the crowd. It's um it's cool. I'm a big I get I get nervous playing, so I like to see people's feet at the very least. If I if I need to kind of disassociate a little bit, if like I'm getting nervous, I don't like to always look at people in the eye. So I'll look at their feet, and if I see that they're tapping along, I know that I'm doing something right. So that's kind of the marker for me to know that okay, this is the rhythm that the crowd in the room is enjoying. So that's you know, just seeing that that little toe tap really in people who have the most stern faces. You see that little toe tap, like, oh, I got you, really.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

So that's great. I well, you never look like you're looking down at people's feet.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Seems like you have great eye contact. Those are things I I used, I'm a communications uh, you know, that was the the area of uh education that I was focused on the most in public address. And I used to teach public address classes, so I can't get that out of my system. You know, I it's like anybody that I see performing, um go uh, you know, I have to put it through that lens of a person who is doing public address and eye contact is is huge, you know, because you're telling you're telling stories. Um and speaking of telling stories, I think that you just made a a great connection that I think that's important for us as musicians to when we're doing cover songs. It you just said something you admitted that it's more than the song for you. It's you somebody like Amy Winehouse, you're connecting to her story. There's there's something behind that music, and so it's a rare privilege to be able to tell someone's story and maybe channel that musician a bit or try to understand what they were feeling, even if there's there's no possible way we can understand what she was feeling, but trying to find some kind of a camaraderie with the artist when we share their song, I think that that's uh I think that's good insight.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

That's cool. Um what do you find to be the most difficult thing about playing?

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Picking the first song, honestly, is is one of the most challenging things. I struggle with it every time I start playing. You know, it's it's one thing when you're doing sound check and you kind of can screw around a little bit, but really just the the pressure of that first song that's either gonna get people to to tune in or they're or they're done. So uh especially bar gigs, right? They're not here for the music a lot of the time. And it's um I think that's one of the hardest things is is really connecting with people that aren't necessarily there to engage with you, you know, or they've already got this wall-up of this music is too damn loud. I'm just here to, you know, drink five cores lights with my buddies.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

So I love those guys, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

And they end up being the the best audience members, honestly. So, um, so I really just think that the pressure of that first song of you're either gonna get them or you're not, and then there's that other side of it of I don't know how busy this bar is gonna get. So I don't necessarily want to put out my the best song that's for the group either. You know, sometimes I like to wait it out, see what happens, the bar fills up. Like, do I want to space it off? You know, you don't want to start off with your best foot forward, but like your better foot forward. So it's um, yeah, I was I always go back and I have a lot of the the songs that I play are kind of curated to different generations, right? So if I'm looking out at the crowd and I'm like, oh, these people are the majority of them are in their like 60s, 70s, you know, that happens at Friar Tux a lot. You hit you hit that older crowd before the younger crowd comes through. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start with Sam Cook. We're gonna get them engaged, they're gonna sing along, this is perfect. Other times, you know, younger generation, like, we're gonna we're gonna do some Garles Barkley, we're gonna um do some Britney Spears, like let's let's um try to pace it out. So yeah, I I think the pressure just of that, like, what is that for a song? And sometimes I'll just go straight with an original song, even for band, even for places that say, you know, just do covers. Um, because I know if I have like my song Under Stars is just it's so like simple and it just has that rhythm tapping, and it's something different. And I think sometimes people just need to hear something different rather than judging, oh, oh, I heard someone else cover this song and I like their version better, you know. Like I think just finding um finding the groove of it, and I get it wrong often. So that's that's the other piece, too, is you know, no matter how many times you try to find the perfect set list or this or that for for what you're playing, like it you never know. It's so many people in a room, it's so many people's thoughts and lives that you're you're impacting. But I do know that whenever there's kids in the audience or like small kids, I like let's go. There's a couple songs that I know for sure that they're gonna be dancing around to, and and that's my favorite part is seeing people's families and their kids and their dogs because that's the most pure audience. If you can lock in a kid, you're set. That means that you're doing something right.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

So oh, that's such great insight. I love that. Yeah, it is it is super fun to kind of you know size up the room and and curate your your set list that way. And then yeah, it does go wrong. I I mean the other night I was like, man, if I could just tell if I do the song brandy right now, they are just going to love this song. And I killed it and I was so proud of myself. And then it was crickets, it was crickets at the end of it. Now, did they enjoy it? I really do think they did, but you know, just the uh what was happening in this crowded bar at the time was they weren't really paying attention to me, you know. And so uh yeah, that's always a a funny thing to to feel. What uh what about being a musician brings you the most joy?

SPEAKER_03 36:04

I think just the people, honestly. I love engaging with people and and just having that, you know, that moment after the crowd, or even just a little eye contact back and forth throughout, or people, you know, seeing people sing along, or you know, just having that, um just having that feeling that you're kind of doing something right when you can just you know connect with somebody out there that you wouldn't usually have a conversation with, and I think it creates a beautiful conversation piece for later. And you don't know what kind of insight they have. I've had people come up to me saying, You just inspired me to pick up my guitar again, or I haven't done this in so long, or I love this. Thank you so much for you know, you just you never know. Or I had someone that at Fire Talks actually, she was sitting at the bar and she what just stayed there almost the entire set list and she said, I just lost my mom. I really was just looking for something to just connect with with anything, and I didn't know what I was expecting, but this really was so perfect for me, and just and those are the stories that I just I loved so much to just to just know that you know I'm just I'm just one person. It's it's so nice to really touch somebody in a way that is really so uplifting, and and I've done social work pretty much my whole career, so you know that's that's my day-to-day is connecting with people and and um you know setting them up for success and hearing all their stories. So if I can add music into that and add that and add that element, like it really feels so rewarding.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

I love that. If you had a magic wand and uh you could wave it across your music life, what would life look like for you five years from now?

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Um I think having a full band to play with that would be that would be the best, honestly. Um so music is is kind of just a uh it's I don't want to say it's just a side thing for me, but I am really locked into my career. I'm starting a doctorate program for occupational therapy. Um so that's you know, that's my bread and butter, and music is such an escape for me. So I think having the connection of, you know, just two or three people that you're just you're locked in writing songs with doing this, I think it really adds such a cool element for me that you're you know, you're bouncing off creativity with other people and and really feeling that sense of community and going out and just and and playing with people and just just going off the rip and playing and just having another person up there to kind of support you in music, I think would just be so so awesome for me to just um to share that with other people and really just have this as an after hours um connection with with your friends, right? Just having that um sense of community, like let's blow off steam, let's really um get in the crowd. And even if we have no gigs, just having that, just having the band of of playing with folks, I think is really um that would be ideal for me. I love that. Um it's it's sad that my brother's across the country in Colorado because we would do that constantly. Um being in the house together, we had a piano in our living room and just it would just be constant. You know, he had his drum set downstairs, we just would always be playing music. We would go to Washington Park here in Albany and just set up, and then people would kind of gather and play music with us. So I really just I love the connection element of music. So I think in a perfect world, that would be um, that would be where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

It's great. I talked to people who are all over the continuum uh with music. Some are full-time musicians, some are doing it part-time, some want to make it a career, some uh are happy having a day job, but also, you know, really they're still slugging it out out there, you know, doing music, but they also have a day job, some do it for an escape. Um, so I'm curious then if if a band came together and you guys just you found the special sauce and you're like, this is like, man, I just never saw this happening. Um would you leave occupational therapy behind to do music full-time if everything worked out?

SPEAKER_03 40:28

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

I'm also very much a uh I can do everything, even if it means I get zero hours of sleep. So I think one thing just becomes part-time, right? So and with OT, there's so many opportunities in the world to to do things. You can, you know, you could be like you could be traveling with it, you can do Zoom sessions, you can be uh you can do consulting, and with part of the doctorate too, that does free me up as well to do teaching. So I could do sessions online. So I really am uh an overthinker, and there's just no way that I can't do everything all at once.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

So yeah. Um I think that's great insight because I think there are a lot of people who absolutely love what they do, not music, uh, and they absolutely love doing music, and they feel like they have to choose between the two or the three in some cases. And so I think that thanks for sharing that with us, because I think that might give some people freedom who are doing music to go, oh wait, yeah, actually, I can do both. I can still love both. Uh and uh I'm not a big believer in balance. I think that that balance is kind of a a pipe dream that you you we go through seasons, and uh in those seasons we lean towards one thing and then we lean towards another thing, and things get busy here and then they get busy there. So I think that that's uh that's insightful and that's why. So thanks for sharing that with us. If uh if you had a television show based on your life, I've never asked anybody this, but if you had a television show based on your life, uh what would it be called?

SPEAKER_03 42:25

It's a dog's life, probably. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, we all that's great. And the dogs calmed down. They do. They were all excited in the beginning of this, but they're quiet back there.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Yep, exactly. It's starting to rain. They they like to sleep a little bit, yeah. So um, yeah, we have the uh the joy of collecting dogs wherever we go. So all of our dogs are rescues from this and that, and we just um we're constant failed fosters. Uh and yeah, um, so we just it's it's always important to have the dogs in the house. And in one of the songs that I had written, Dog Water, um, is I had lost my my golden retriever that I've had since I was 15 years old. So he was, you know, just the most important piece of my life. He's been through so much with me. So this was kind of a um goodbye song to him in a in a lot of ways. Um, and so he's on the album artwork. Um my friend Mikey designs designed it. So it's just it was kind of like that that big part of in like the last five years um that happened that really touched a part of myself of you know, like letting go. And and this, you know, I I'm not usually a big believer in this this kind of stuff, but I the dog that we had adopted from uh NorCow Golden Retriever Rescue, he ran right up to us, and I swear it just was him in a tinier body. So he just um came right up to us and just we have all these little ghost winks of uh mannerisms. Things that Finn used to do that we see on his face every day. And uh you know, I and I think that was a big part of the song is that this album is very cyclical with things coming through and changes, and everything is you know not always what it seems, but it will work out in the end, and just trying to keep that positivity and not necessarily the toxic positivity, because some things do suck, you know, they're not gonna get better, and I'm fully aware of that, but um just kind of trying to find the good in things, and things are gonna they're gonna be what they're gonna be, and you can respond to them how how you want to.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Are you early? Easy tensions for two drifter myself with me.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Tell us the name of the album, uh, where it can be found, and then if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that? Where do they follow you? Yada yada.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Yeah, uh so the album is called Dogwater. Um it's a five-track album. Uh it'll be available June 27th on all streaming platforms. Um and if you want to listen to it sooner, it will be on VMCamp. Um it's available now. If you want to listen to it, download it. Um and the best way to get into contact with me is probably through Instagram. Um and then there is a link tree on my Instagram that you can get uh get my email address or the best way of contacting me. So my Instagram is sister underscore outlaw.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

You know what? I didn't even ask you about that name. I need to ask you about the name. Like, how did that come about? Sister outlaw.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

It was in the middle of my philosophical level. I was in college, um, and there was this professor that it was it was a pretty low-stage higher word class. Um, it was sustainable spirituality classes, so we talked about all kinds of different things, and our professor was amazing. She just would really just pick it up on her cellclasses and uh tell us all these stories, and she was talking about I don't even remember the the context of it, but she was talking about her her ex-husband's sister, so she was writing the story saying, Oh, my sister-in-law. Well, I guess we got divorced, or really she's my sister outlaw. And I just I wrote it down and I kept you know, I kept looking at it. It had a really good name, especially when my friends kept saying, No, you're more of a Dusty Coke kind of singer, all this stuff. And it just really um I looked it up, there wasn't a whole lot of internet history on this on this word. There's I think a movie um that came out in the 60s. Um, I think about an escaped nun who goes on the run. So that was not a not a bad thing to be second second place with on a Google Zerch. So uh yeah, I just I fell in love with it. It's it's really um yeah, it's it's it's catchy, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

It's very cool. It's a name that would work well on a Bonneroo poster, so I think that that's great. Aurora, again, thanks for taking the time, and uh I appreciate you, and and it's good to get to know you a little bit better, and I know people are going to enjoy this, so thank you.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Awesome, yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, it's that's uh it's great to see you. I wish we were in California, but this this will do.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Oh yeah, well, I'm sure we'll meet up uh again on the road somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Stay creative, stay after it, stay hired.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Let me live, let me live, let me live.