Gig To Live
Full-time gigging musician John Voelz discusses the strategies, mindset shifts, and real-world lessons that help you build something that actually lasts, delivering smart and practical insight with a sense of humor that keeps it real and approachable. If you gig, or want to gig, this is for you.
Gig To Live
Ep 30: A Conversation with Seth Abstract
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You asked for it. The first episode (more to come), where John talks to creators about the use of AI in music.
In this episode, John sits down with content creator and musician Seth Abstract, whose unique blend of classic literature, modern music, and artificial intelligence has captured the attention of audiences across TikTok, Instagram, and beyond.
Seth is best known for transforming the works of Edgar Allan Poe into dramatic musical performances, bringing centuries-old poetry to life through AI-assisted songwriting and powerful visual storytelling.
Artificial intelligence has become one of the most debated topics in the music world. For some artists, it represents exciting new creative possibilities. For others, it raises serious questions about originality, ownership, artistry, and the future of music itself. Seth stands right in the middle of that conversation.
Whether you're excited about AI, despise it, or you're somewhere in between, this conversation explores what happens when technology, creativity, and classic art collide. It's a thoughtful discussion about inspiration, innovation, and how musicians can navigate one of the most significant shifts the creative world has seen in decades.
If you have a question, an idea for a show, or you would just like to say "hey," you can drop me an email at gigtolivepodcast@gmail.com
You are listening to the Gig to Live Podcast. Welcome everyone. I'm John Foles and I'm a full-time working musician. This podcast is about building a music life that holds up over time. It's practical, enjoyable, sometimes uncomfortable, but it's always about helping you stay in the game and actually enjoy the life that you're building. We'll meet some wonderful working musicians from time to time. So whether you're just getting started or you've been doing this for years, you're in the right spot. This podcast is for you. Hello everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I'm excited about today because today is a bit different than anything we've done so far. Today's guest goes by the name Seth Abstract. Uh, Seth reached out to me about potentially being a guest on the podcast, and I was immediately intrigued. He has hundreds of thousands of listens and views on YouTube and other platforms where music is played, where he's created songs using AI and the public domain works of the poet Edgar Allan Poe, and some other things as well. But that was the one that caught my attention. I'm excited about the conversation because I'm super curious about the ways that artists are using AI today. And some are approaching it with uh a bit of hesitation. You know, some absolutely do not trust it. Uh they don't trust artists who use it in some cases. Uh I don't know how fair that is. Uh some embrace it wholeheartedly. I don't know how fair that is. I just had a buddy tell me that he wanted me to do an episode uh on AI and how we and this is his quote how we keep it at bay when songwriting. Then I come across Seth and he is unapologetically deep diving into AI, uh, calling things his own songs, celebrating that. And there are a ton of nuances here and unanswered questions. And so I am coming in super curious today. I've got a handful of questions. So, Seth, welcome to the show today.
SPEAKER_06Hey, John, so awesome to be on the podcast. I'm so excited to dive into all this stuff. It's so fun to get a talk about it, and you have, I think, some great questions probably for me, and it's gonna be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome, man. Well, well, let's just start off with uh I think something that will be at the forefront for everybody is are you a musician in the traditional sense of the word? And do you consider that the uh the AI-generated material you make is being made by a musician? I know that's a loaded question. Um speak speak into that for us.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's a great question, actually. And I actually get a ton of comments that are like, you're not a real musician, this isn't real music. This is so this is actually something I've had to think about a lot. Um I've actually never thought of myself as a musician. I I actually have played with like musical instruments and FL Studio and things like that and made small stuff um for like a couple years and things. But uh I'm more just an artist, and music happens to be the thing that I'm doing right now. And so when people are like, you're not a musician, it's usually my response is like, okay, I don't I don't know what it's called then. I don't know what you want to call me. I don't know if there's a word for it yet, or we're just gonna go with artist or what you want to say. But like, it's okay if I'm not a musician, you know. I I don't think there needs to be a label on these these this new stuff yet, but I am something, I just don't know what it is. If it's not a musician, that's okay with me. I just want to make cool stuff and have people hear it.
SPEAKER_01Shall be lifted level.
SPEAKER_00I've watched quite a few of your videos online, and uh I will have to admit that the the visual artistic interpretation of the poems somehow makes the whole thing more legit to me. I I don't know exactly why that is the case, but why do you think it may be the case?
SPEAKER_06I think it's because video is really my main art for. That's what I've done for like 10 years, so that's you know, I'm still growing and learning in it, but that's my main thing I've been doing forever. And so I think when people see the videos, it's like very obvious I'm an artist, and like you can feel that. Maybe if you just listen to music, you can't feel that as much. But when you watch the videos, I think it's all there. It's very, you know. Um, I try to do experimental stuff, I try to do cool stuff, try to do good music videos, things like that. And so I think that's where some of the legitimacy comes across because the videos aren't AI and people can see they're not AI. Um, and so that's sometimes too. I get confused with some comments where they're very anti-AI. I'm like, guys, I'm more of a video guy, you know. I'm not music happens to be my new passion, but video is my main art form that you guys are seeing and that I love to share with everyone, you know. That's my main thing. And so that's why I think some people I also get a lot of comments where people are like, I think this is an okay use for AI, like the videos are awesome. He's you know, thinking about it a lot. And so I think that's what it is. I think if I was also using AI videos, then it would come across much, much worse. Um, but it's more like I'm using AI as like part of the tool set, but not, you know, necessarily everything. And I think that's what helps a lot.
SPEAKER_00Do you want to be known as a videographer or a musician, then piggybacking off of that?
SPEAKER_06That's great. Truthfully, I don't really care which avenue I'm necessarily known for. I just love making art. I also do photography, I do digital collages, I do game design. Like I've done just a ton of different things, and really I've loved them all a ton. Video just happens to be the one I've done the most, but realistically, I could have done any of them for 10 years. I just happened to find video, you know, first. So whatever works out, I just love making stuff. I just want the opportunity to create and and put stuff out there.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Well, nobody is going to say that you are not expressive in those videos. That's uh uh the makeup, the facial expressions, the moves.
SPEAKER_06Edgar Allan Poe is a very artist. It's fun to be able to, you know, fully like my eyes as wide open as they can be and stuff in these videos. I think it it allows me a lot of freedom to do a bunch of weird stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, to me, you look like a uh a combination of Edgar Allan Poe and Salvador Dolly.
SPEAKER_06When I was first, my very first Edgar Allan Poe video, that's who my brother thought I was trying to be. He didn't know Poe, so he thought it was that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so funny. Well, it's it's so great, so fun. And then there's you have others star in these videos with you in these music videos. Uh I'm assuming that's your girlfriend.
SPEAKER_06Yes, that is my amazing girlfriend.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. And uh I mean, she's she's fully into it as well. She's she's embracing this thing.
SPEAKER_06She's amazing, she does her own social media, and she so she's Ukrainian, and so we travel around together. So we're three years in now, and we're full-time traveling for eight months, and she does travel social media and things like that, and she's just fantastic on camera. She just naturally, ever since I met her, she can just be on camera super easily doing whatever. So it's been such a blessing that I can just pull her, and she's great in everything in any role, and it's just easy to have someone always there to help.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Oh, well, that's that's curious. She's Ukrainian. You're from originally from where? From Texas, from the US. From Texas, but I believe you are currently in Vietnam. Yes, it's kind of crazy. Is is this a vacation spot? Or how is that happening?
SPEAKER_06So, what ended up happening is I went on a trip to Poland. Coincidentally, I just my dad couldn't make it, and they had already booked everything, so I took his spot. And my girlfriend was also visiting Poland for like one week, and we just happened to have one-day crossover in the capital, and it just clicked. And we talked online for six months, and then we went on our first trip for two weeks, and then it was another trip for a month, and then three months, and then you know, and then we were spending 50% of our time home, 50% of the time traveling, and then you know, it's just very tough right now. She can't really come to the US right now. Going to Ukraine is it's tough. I visited it, it was very it was tough. And uh so now we're just full-time traveling for eight months, and uh Vietnam happens to be our favorite spot that we visited so far. So we're just hanging out here for a couple months.
SPEAKER_00Wow, I'm sure there's a lot of um, you know, visually, it's it's beautiful over there for videos, too.
SPEAKER_06So I'm it's amazing, yeah, because I move, you know, we used to move every two weeks. So every two weeks I had a whole new landscape to film on. So that's why if you go back, especially some of the older videos, it's like every other video is just some insane location because it's just you know, that was just a lot of doing it. And I think that helped a lot having all those cool spots. No one else can really, you know, have that.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Do you do you feel you may have already answered this, but I I want to ask it a little bit more pointedly. Do you feel like you have to defend your legitimacy as a musician?
SPEAKER_06I think, I mean, it's a good question. Um, I mean, people talk about like AI art all the time. Like, in general, AI art, do you have to defend it as art? And like for sure you have to people are definitely coming after me in the comments. Um, yeah, and I think uh a big part of it is just understanding what art is, I guess, to me, anyway, my definition. And part of this is coming from this awesome book, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin, that I'm sure is a great book. It's an amazing book, right? But he has a chapter where he's talking about like art is even just the decisions you're making day to day, like the way you drive on the road, you know, the way you play a video game, the way you set up your closet, you know, this is all creativity of being human, like human, every human is an artist, it's just depending on what your art is, you know. And so for some people it's how they decorate their house, some people it's you know, music. And so when we're talking about like this AI art, it's like this is also art because it's channeling human creativity. It's just a very, very different method. And I think that's the main thing. Like, okay, if we're not going to be musicians or you, you know, even if we're talking about 2D art or something like that, uh, we got to come up with a new term for it. But like it is still art, you know, there's still creativity being poured into this. And I think also there is some misconception that a lot of this is just you just press like one button and it's just like boom, here's you know, whatever it is. Um, and I think if you haven't used AI like at all, or you've just used like Chat GPT a little bit, I I think you there's a lot of gaps of understanding of like how tough or like how much you have to actually put into it. Is it as tough as as doing it a different way? I don't know, but you know, it's definitely not as easy as just you know, hey Chat GPT, I want the song, and boom, you know. And I think that's what a lot of people also like when I'm looking at the comments, like they just haven't tried it either, and that's what's difficult.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Okay, well, that's interesting. Some musicians, yes, they do hear AI music and they immediately dismiss it as fake and uh lazy. So, what do you think they are misunderstanding?
SPEAKER_06I think, I mean, I think again, I think if it's even if it's lazy, you know, I think even if we look at you know certain painting styles or certain, you know, you can call all kinds of things like or you know, even photography, right? Photography is a lot easier than doing an oil painting, at least as far as like you just click and you know, there's the the picture versus an oil painting. And I'm sure the oil painters would be saying, you know, very similar things to photographers and things like that. But I think the main thing with the AI is people haven't seen as much the workflows and like what goes into it. It's totally different from how you make normal music, but it's still this very difficult thing. The closest thing I found that I think helps explain it the best is uh making collages. So collage artists are very talented and they go out and they find, you know, all these scraps from magazines and newspapers and all these things. So they're not making the bass material, they're recombining it in a new way to you know make a statement, right? Make their own art piece out of these other pieces. I think that is the closest thing um to what is happening with, you know, for example, the music AI stuff.
SPEAKER_02The Live Brigade. There's enough to make reply. There's not to reply.
SPEAKER_06I'm already at like 300 to 400 tracks. And so you're generating, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of songs, listening through all of them. And what I'm ending up doing is you're taking the best, you know, 25 to 40 snippets, and then I'm pulling that into a DAW. But for me right now, I'm just using Adobe Editions, and you're having to find ways, how can I seamlessly cut these 25 to 40 snippets together to make one track? And so it's actually such a pain. And I think um there's a lot of strengths of AI and there's a lot of weaknesses compared to normal music, and it's just a very different process. Like, for example, a transition from the chorus to you know the second verse that can take me hours and hours and hours to get like two or three seconds to just transition cleanly from one clip I have that I like to another one, versus you know, in uh in normal music, I mean a band's gonna do that in like three seconds, right? That'll be like super quick. And so it's just this totally different process, but it takes hours and hours and hours, and it's really collagen. You're really pulling together all this stuff, um, even not taking into account like prompting it and planning it, um, which I think is really just as difficult as normal music because you have to really have this idea of what you're making, it won't just like spit out something cool. You gotta really know, okay, for this next 10 seconds I want it to sound like this, and then you gotta go, you know, make it happen somehow.
SPEAKER_00So, what I hear you saying is that there's way more layers uh involved in this than people understand. And honestly, so from my perspective, and you touched on this a little bit, uh, we've been using AI for years, even though our recent iterations of AI uh have made it super controversial. So for instance, Grammarly is AI. Nobody nobody has a problem with spell check, right? Auto-correct and predictive text are AI. Uh many music tools uh that musicians have been using for a while. Auto-tune is probably the biggest example, uh, gar garage band looping, uh DJs. That's really kind of a form of collage art there, using AI for years with no real controversy. So using AI in the way that you use it does seem a bit different than those things, but uh do you see it as any different than using auto-tune, drum samples, synth presets, digital recording software?
SPEAKER_06And that that's a good question. That's a really good question. That is part of the difficulty. Um, I get a lot of people I get a lot. It's you know, you just I keep saying a lot of people, but you just remember the negative comments more. But you know, there are comments where it's like, oh, why didn't you say it was AI or something like that? You know, I do tag the company and I, you know, if anyone asks, I put it out there and things like that. But I don't, you know, go out of my way to in the video have text on screen that says this is AI. And people uh some people, a few people are bothered by that. But to me, it seems very odd. It would be like if I used auto-tune, like you were saying in a song, do I need to tell you, hey, this is auto-tune in every video? Hey, this is auto-tune, this isn't my real voice. Is there a difference if I use AI to auto-tune my voice onto a track versus just using auto-tune? Like, either way, it's not really my voice, it's just kind of like a weird version of my voice. And I think that is a tricky question, and it is very like confusing. And talking to some of my like older musician friends who have been around a lot longer, they were telling me, like, you know, when sampling became like a big thing, you know, there was a ton of controversy around that too, in the a similar way where it's like, uh, is this you know, it feels like this has been an issue in music for a long time, but AI is just the newest, you know, thing that everyone's focused on. But it's true, it's like I I'm I don't know, I wasn't there when it happened, but when auto-tune came out, I feel like people were probably really upset too, but maybe not wrong. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, some are still upset. Right. Yeah, but no, you're you're absolutely correct. Um I think the purest in the music industry, they won't some of them while they won't totally discard auto-tune, they're still saying the best way to record anything, and the purest way is to get a solid take of a good performance, even if it has oddities, even if it has, you know, something that's out of tune. What what really matters is the performance.
SPEAKER_06And that's great. Like that is very interesting. And I think actually something that I've been like toying around with a lot has been that I mean the way you make art changes the art, right? And so I think when you have these music purists and stuff, they have a valid point. Like that, you're gonna get a a specific version of a song that you will not get any other way by doing it that way. Um, because it's just the path that you take is is gonna dictate what the song becomes. But also using auto-tune is gonna create some stuff that you know you totally can't create if you're a music purist. And same with AI, like this is gonna be a whole new genre of music, it's gonna be something totally different from what came before. It's just it's not the same thing, you know. Like normal music purist style is gonna be totally different from AI style. Like on my album that came out, the the poetry album, every single track is pretty much a different genre, it has a different voice, which female voices, you know, like deep male voices, like all these different styles. And it's like that's something that would be so I mean, if you were just a single artist, that would be like impossible to do, right? You can't have all these voices, but with AI, that's like easy, right? And so it's like these are where some of the differences start to crop up, where you're gonna see AI music is just gonna Its own genre, you know, just like if you see this is kind of a weird example on Instagram and TikTok and stuff. If you've seen those like AI fruit videos, have you seen those where the fruits are like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it. So it's like that didn't replace something, right? That's like a totally new genre, just totally based around AI. And I think given more time, we're gonna see the same thing happen with like music and really like all these different kinds of AI aren't. It's just gonna be something new.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's there's a lot of different arguments with AI, and I think they're legit as far as like they they deserve conversation, they deserve a deep dive. I think there's the people that say it's fake, nothing should be fake, right? Like that's one approach to AI uh and the controversy. I think another one is you're taking away the jobs of real musicians. Um that's another, you know, that's another thing. But then I I think of somebody like you, and I I I go, I don't know how realistic it is for you to go, you know, I'm gonna make this really cool video, and I'm gonna go hire a band to sit in a studio and do this, because all of a sudden you're I mean, you're in it for a lot of money.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's and that's the difficulty. And I I you know have conversations with people about that. That these songs wouldn't exist otherwise. Like people are like, why can't you do this in a different way with real musicians because I love the song? And I'm like, the song just I mean, one, it wouldn't exist the same way because the process creates you know this final product, but two, like, should not afford it. I can barely afford to like live. I cannot afford to hire people to come and you know make this stuff. And unfortunately, uh, music wasn't the thing I've done for 10 years, you know. That just wasn't the one I could I happen to pick. Um and you know, and that is the difficulty, you know. I I just simply but I think that is also, you know, you're also seeing the positive side of AI that I think people are focused on this negative side, like, okay, now you know, I didn't hire a musician, but maybe I could have saved up money and and done it or something like that. But it's also all of a sudden, everyone, including artists, now has access to these tools that you know don't cost nearly as much money. All of a sudden, if you're an artist, you can make a website on your own and it can be really cool. And like I just did the I am, I do actually program, like you know, it helps a lot to have the AI. It's like I just released my art prints and I have like my music page that you know I send people to, and I was able to make a custom website that feels like me, and like I put in like a secret uh scavenger hunt and stuff on it that's like really cool and just bury me. That wouldn't have been possible, even with my programming skills, it would have taken a year, you know, and now it's something easy and you don't have to hire someone. Like you can heal your not heal, but you can anyone can now help their weak spots, you know. So for me, now I'm selling these art prints, you know, unrelated. I mean, they are related to the music, they're based off the tracks of the album, but it's like this is costing me literally just the amount that ChatGPT costs for one month. I'm able to host the website for free with Cloudfair, um, using Square for free with no fees and things like that. And then Chat GPT, like I don't need to have all this money. Versus if you're rich, you know, that's not a problem for you. But all of a sudden we're on like this equal playing field. Everyone has access to these tools now, everyone can make a website, everyone can make music, everyone can do all the CGI in in videos, you know. And so I think there's also a ton of opportunity for people to expand past just what they're really good at because now all of a sudden you can create this like whole experience um that just you know monetarily was not possible before. I think.
SPEAKER_00I I feel like there are way more unanswered questions with AI than answered questions, you know. There's and I don't know, you know, that they're good, bad, right, or wrong. I mean, some of some people feel so deeply about it, so passionately about it, that it's a you know, it's an ethical issue. And um so it's interesting. I I'm curious, can you can you if you're watching a television program, can you listen to a uh a song on that program and go, that's AI?
SPEAKER_06I have had this have show in Vietnam for whatever reason. Uh when I'm in the store, I sometimes will hear the song and I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's AI. And then I'll look it up and find it, and it is AI. And so I can tell the difference. I have enough practice, and I I think also as well, like musicians who are very experienced, they can also tell pretty quick if they listen to the full track. Um, like for sure you can still hear it, especially if people are just taking the easy route with the songs and not like, for example, one thing you can do again. This is another thing where people just I think don't know this is possible yet. But so in my track, sometimes I'll have the chorus, right? And I'm like, oh, I love how he sings here. I love, you know, this is a great bass. They have now where you can pull it into an online DAW and you can add instruments layer by layer. And so you can go, okay, we're gonna add this kind of strings here, we're gonna do like quarter notes here, eighth notes here, and like create like these extra layers. So my favorite song that I made, Charge of the Light Brigade, has this instrumental song or this instrumental part at the end that was made, it just started with like this ghostly like children's choir, like singing, and then it was like, Okay, we're gonna add guitar here, we're gonna add violin here, we're gonna add draw. And so just by adding all these layers, you know, it makes this piece. So I think things like that, you know, make it harder to tell. But for sure, like when I show my like experienced musician friends and stuff my tracks, it's like, why did you add that here? And I was like, I just never noticed that, and no one else did either until I showed you, you know. So I think it's not at the point where you can't tell, because for sure, if I can tell, for sure other people can tell as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Uh, for the muggles, can you explain an online DAW?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so uh online daw is just something like FL Studio or Logic, um, but it's just online, and so it just lets you uh edit the music uh layer by layer, instrument by instrument, instead of you know just dealing with the whole track at once.
SPEAKER_00Hopefully, thank you for that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06You might be able to explain a DAW better than we can.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's that's helpful. I just don't want to skip over some terms if they you know present themselves. That's right. Um, they might be fresh to someone who's listening. So then, uh let's just pretend. It's uh let's say it's a Wednesday and you're starting your day, and you go, man, it's time to create a new song. How is what you do different than what people assume you do? Like walk us through the process then, just like a brief overview.
SPEAKER_06This is interesting. This happened today. Um, I woke up and today was kind of weird. This is the direction I'm starting to move in. One of my musician friends had sent me this awesome guitar riff, um, and they were playing it, right? On like an actual guitar. And so I woke up and I was like, okay, we're gonna just see what we come up with just right off the bat, right when we wake up. And so I went into the the Daw, and it was like, okay, we're just gonna start adding instruments. And you know, it's really to me, I think the difference with the AI music, and the reason I like photography and collages and things like that over something like oil painting, is I like the feeling of like exploring the art. It's you know, it's more like I'm finding it than I'm really like planning it out. And and so when I'm doing this, it's really you're just playing around, you're going, that sounds awesome. I'm gonna keep that, or you just sit there and you keep generating, keep generating, keep generating. And so I just go through and you know, I added all the layers, and then it was like, okay, we got to come up with some lyrics. And this was like my favorite part of the whole day. I just sat down, I just typed out some random thing. I I didn't think too hard about it, I just typed out whatever. And then you know, I plug it in, it goes, and it just perfectly matched up. I didn't just went perfectly on the beat, it was everything was great, and it's just so fun to create like that. And even with the poems, when I'm making a new poetry song, the main thing is you just have to start with a with the idea, like you need to have this like clear vision of the song. So, like when I was making like Ozzie Mandius or something, it was like this metal track. Uh, for whatever reason, I read that poem and it was like that's clearly metal, that has to be metal, and then you know you work backwards from there, but it's like you have to have this clear idea, or you're just gonna be making like nothing, it's it just won't give you anything good. You have to have that like clear vision. I think that's the biggest thing that people don't realize. Like it has to be in your head already, or else the AI is just not just like if you ever talk to Chat GPT, but you kind of don't know what you're talking about, it it just gives you like these weird average answers that don't make any sense. You have to be like very detailed, very specific, and then it can do something better.
SPEAKER_00Right. It it it will guess what you want, and and then when it thinks it knows who you are and what you want, it will start answering you accordingly. And if that's not what you want, you have to tell it knock it the frick off. That is not what I want at all. Don't get inside my head. Yeah, AI is is interesting. Now, let's let's talk about the growth of these videos because it's it's uh pretty amazing. Um most artists uh don't grow exponentially accidentally. Uh what has caused your growth? What's the intrigue? Well, how much work have you put into it? What's the deal?
SPEAKER_06Oh man, the videos take so much. I'm doing videos more than I'm doing music, unfortunately. It's so long to edit even just one. I'm trying to make like the highest quality videos I can. Sometimes, you know, you just put out whatever, but you know, every video the filming's gonna take, you know, it can take up to an hour, sometimes longer. Like the other day, I went and did a photo shoot with a videographer that I found here, and you're just out there in the sun for you know two, three hours just filming all these different shots, and then you got to come back, and it's this huge editing process because there's so many shots and cuts and all this stuff. Um, and so the videos do take like a ton of effort, and I'm spending time listening to podcasts about musicians talk about their content strategy and all that, like that takes so much time. Um, and so I think that's partly why it's been I've been able to grow so well. Um, it's also, you know, again, video happens to be my thing, so it's nice that the music is working well because then you know the video, my main thing is like extremely helpful. I can't imagine if I I wasn't a video person how you would, you know, do this. Um, it's it's just much tougher. But you can also make way easier videos than what I'm making. I've made it too complicated. I think people can get away with like much less uh hardcore stuff. Um, but I also think the main thing is I have done from listening to these podcasts, a lot of musicians start out making covers, like they have a great voice and they make covers, and that's how you gain some momentum for like that first year, and then you can switch your own music, you get a hit at some point, and then you're you know, you're off. And so I think I've done the AI equivalent of that, where I've taken something that people know fairly well, and you know, I'm able to write off the name of you know these famous poets and stuff, and it's you know, it's lucky I didn't think about that when I first did it. But looking back, people knowing who Edgar Allan Poe is gets you so many more views, and then eventually they get hooked into the videos, and then they get hooked into the songs, and then you know, I think that has been the biggest reason. If I had just started with my own like random music from the beginning, I don't think I would have grown as fast. And I have one random song called The Crash, and it did okay. I got like 20k views on one video of it, but like the rest all did like 5k views, you know, compared to the poetry ones. And so I think this is just uh you gotta pick a niche, a niche early and and stick to it and grow with that. Um, and you gotta think a lot about the hooks. That's the other most important thing is the text you're putting at the start of the video is like the most important thing, and I think those are the main things that have um that have helped me. Um but also like having a niche, I think I have a great community. Like people leave so many comments and stuff, and so I think I convert, I want to say I convert to people who listen higher than average, but I don't have the numbers to back it up. It just feels that way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, interesting. I really appreciate you being honest with all of these answers because uh I it it's such a volatile uh topic, and I'm sure some people are going to start listening to this podcast and already they have their mind made up and they're gonna try to figure out ways to hate you.
SPEAKER_05Um I'm halfway joking.
SPEAKER_00I'm halfway joking. Um but um so I do have another uh tough question for you because since since AI already muddies the idea of authorship, and you were just talking about how you you don't think you would have grown, you know, had it not been for Edgar Allan Poe. Not only are you using AI, but you're using complete works of literature that are in the public domain. So some would say you're double dipping into the thief pool.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So speak to that for us.
SPEAKER_06Okay, that is an interesting question. I have seen this come up from time to time, um, as well. Like a lot of the stuff I do unfortunately just deal with in the comments every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure some people are so mean. People are very so that's just I think no matter what, you know, there's gonna be people like that. But um, I mean, it is a good question. I mean, the main thing is um, I mean, part of it is I never actually intended to release songs um based around poetry, it was actually never my intent. I just actually genuinely do love poetry. I think it's one of the coolest art forms ever, and I I just love it. I write poetry, like it's it's one of my favorite things. Um, and it just so happened that I made an Edgar Allan Poe video and I put on the makeup and I did the eyes, and the video just exploded. And even then, I didn't think anyone would want to actually listen to a full track or anything. It was just like funny, a funny video. But people really, you know, do love poetry and they're out there and they love Edgar Allan Poe. And so eventually, you know, I released the first song and it did great, and then it's like, okay, people just genuinely love poetry and want to express that in some way, and so to me, it's like there is that double dipping, but uh it's also just like I get so many messages and DMs and things like that of from teachers and parents where they're like, Oh, my kid is listening to this, or I'm playing this in the classroom so they can understand the poem better and it's working so well, or students, especially from the UK, they do like poetry-specific classes over there for high school, and I get so many comments from them being like, 'Oh, thank you for making charge of the light brigade to help me with my tests because I can remember the poems.' So it's like stuff like that where it's like, I'm so happy that I'm getting to do poetry because you know, the fact that it is something historical, it's connecting with so many people, but also helping more people to get into poetry. Then maybe they'll go read some more modern poets and things like that. And so that's like super cool. And the way I have decided to deal with that, like double dipping, is all of my songs are they're not, I don't know what to call them because I haven't done anything officially yet, but they're just open for anyone to use. I have not copyrighted them in any way, where, like, for example, if you use them in your YouTube videos, you're good. It should not copyright strike you or demonetize you. If it does, you have to like know. But I had to go back and forth with DistroKid, uh, my distributor bunch to to because originally I put it on the Raven and I was I changed my mind. I was like, nope, and I had to argue with them for like a month to get them to remove that. And so all of them are open and on my website on SethAbstract.com. I have a media tab where you can just download any of the tracks, and you can use it in your your videos, you can use it for teaching, you can use it for sampling, you can use it for covers. I'm trying to get the backing tracks up there now, it's just being a pain. And so it's like that for me, that's my answer to that because I know I am taking from these, you know, awesome poets and stuff. So I'm just releasing it back out there for anyone to use in any way they want, and you know, so it it works out because I still get to do the streaming and all that, but everyone just gets you know to have it any way they want. So I'm trying to give back at least you know that much to be able to help other people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's fun. Thanks for sharing that. That's cool. So I did I did not uh really understand that. I mean, I've listened to a lot of the songs and watched a lot of the videos, so um uh but I yeah, I just hadn't put that together.
SPEAKER_06I so I just I need to talk about it more. I just haven't figured out how to do talking videos that hits more than like 2,000 people. Gotta figure it out. I'm still trying to announce it. My website, I was like, at least if they go to the website, they're gonna see it. But I I try to just tell people in the comments every time I can. I'm like, hey, you can go download it, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. Have you ever thought about tagging uh just uh uh up like the video fades out and it's you talking? Hey, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_06Try that, just give like a little five. That's not a bad idea. Like, I gotta try something.
SPEAKER_00I'm here to help.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, because like even my postcard, you know, this is a pretty new thing that every track now has a digital collage for it, and I'm selling the art prints and stuff. I can't even get the word about that out. I'm giving away like free postcards on the website, like one free one that's like this hidden one, but you have to do a scavenger hunt on the website and find like these hidden words and stuff. I can't even get the word out that there's a free postcard, it's just very difficult. Everything's you know, it's hard to get everyone to hear everything.
SPEAKER_00I thought the scavenger hunt was a creative idea. I saw that recently. I thought it was cool. It's very it was came across my Instagram feed. Um Seth, are you currently doing live shows with the videos?
SPEAKER_06This is a good question. I'm not yet. I did one live stream to celebrate the album coming out, and I did like some little mini, you know, performances for each of the songs and then explained like behind the scenes. But right now, I just I thought early on that like I for sure want to do live shows like ASAP, but the issue is I've been traveling, you know. I started making music the second I left the US, you know. So this started, my account was made when I landed in Ukraine, so exactly eight months ago, and I've been traveling that whole time. So it's also like I I have nowhere to do a live show, unfortunately. I'm trying to figure out if I can do a live stream, if there's some cool way to do that, but then again, you got to market the live streaming. It's such a pain to get people show up at that time versus selling a ticket and you know they're gonna be there. And so my thought though, I do have a plan for it if I'm ever able to. I think if I ever do the living archive, the poetry album, you know, uh live show, it's gonna be some mix of of comedy, education, and then the music and finding ways to more interact with the with the crowd, with the community, and do it that way. So that's my my current plan for it. Um, whether or not I ever get the chance to do that, if I get somewhere where I can actually put on a show before, you know, it's the next album or whatever, you know. But that's my idea. That's my hope. I think it'd be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00I'll look forward to seeing that when it comes to fruition. I think that'd be fun. Have any uh living poets? I I actually know the uh answer to this. Uh when I thought through this, I didn't know the answer. But speaking of this, living poets and authors reaching out to collaborate with you. What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_06Okay, so this is exciting because this is you know something super new. I did a small series before the poetry album came out, before the Living Archive came out, where I started taking viewers' poems and turning them into little song snippets. So I would make the chorus and make a video for it, and that was a ton of fun. And I got through like four of them, and then the album came out, and then it was okay, I gotta promote the album, promote the album, promote the album. And now one of those four videos did like 60,000 views off just like a video in my room. So I was like, Okay, I want to try, you know, this is my first, you know, test of not doing a famous poet and you know, doing something that's more original. But this viewer wrote this awesome. A ballad, and it's kind of like Annabelle Lee, and it's very, very cool. And it's based in like the southern US, so it's got this like cool aesthetic. And so we're trying to turn that into a full track now. I've started to post some test videos to start to try to see what my angle is for it. And I hope that this is gonna be my next direction for a little bit, and we'll release more original stuff and things like that. So it's exciting to get to work with with uh with her. She's an awesome poet, even though she's like 19, and so it's like this very cool, like honest poem. I'm also working with this awesome poet called Natasha Walker, and she has a poetry book called Ponderings of Me, Myself, and I. And she sent me like that whole book and was like, use whatever you want from here. I made one with her music. I'm gonna be look or with her poems, gonna be looking at that a little more. And so that's hopefully my plan for moving forward. I'm trying to work with more people, with poets who are currently alive, with other musicians, with other video people. That's my hope. That's uh partly why I'm staying in Dunong for two months, so I can actually connect with some people here and make that happen.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Okay, so you've talked about some of the redeeming qualities of AI, and uh I'll kind of summarize some of them as I heard you saying them, and then you can tell me if there's anything I missed.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um uh when it comes to like redeeming AI, I I hear you saying there's a there's an educational element to it. So uh whether it be you know kids in a classroom, a teacher using uh the music in the classroom, or just um the education that one receives watching on YouTube. Uh you've talked about it bringing attention to the works of Edgar Allan Poe or other poets in in ways that uh it wouldn't normally uh have eyes on it. Uh you've talked about AI stretching creativity for an artist. Um what am I missing? What are some other redeeming qualities?
SPEAKER_06The the fact that now anyone can make uh you know anything, that you can make a website for your art and you don't have to, you know, it's no longer something that's behind this wall of money anymore.
SPEAKER_00Right. Good. Yes, you did mention that. Thank you, thank you for that. Okay, here's the the final question for you.
SPEAKER_06Oh, here, I have some other qualities. Sorry, I do have some other qualities. I was just going, I was trying to go trying to go back over the ones I had set up. Um one tell me some other um one other one that I'm very excited to see, um, and this is kind of you know touching on the money thing again, but um, there was something in in movies called the French New Wave. And this was uh a movie thing when all of a sudden there is these cameras, they were still huge, but you know, they could like fit on your shoulder, you could walk around with them. Those came out, and all of a sudden, filmmakers you know have access to this tool. So all of a sudden in France, you got these directors and critics and all these people on the street just filming like all this super cool experimental stuff. You have this explosion of creativity because all of a sudden it was accessible to them, right? It was you don't need this huge budget, you just need a camera and you need a team and you just go, right? And so I think we're gonna see, I'm hoping, I'm waiting for it, I'm sure it's coming, but this explosion of creativity because of AI. I've been meeting with a ton of different people um from all different countries doing all kinds of different things from like editing to the screenwriting and the um story, uh, the directors and things like that. And every single person I met, I recently did a 48-hour like movie challenge. Every single person there was using AI in some way. It wasn't necessarily for their main thing, but they were using it for special effects with the editing, they were using it for AI images for the storyboarding, you know, they're using it to like generate random ideas and things like that to like start off their like you know, story just to like bounce off of. And so I think we're gonna see this huge, you know, what happens when all of a sudden to make a movie with all these CGI effects and stuff, it only costs $100,000 instead of you know $50 million or whatever, you know? If anyone with you know a phone can go out and film something awesome and edit it, you know, how many more people's viewpoints are we gonna see? How many more interesting things, how much more experimental art instead of just you know, whatever is gonna like make money? You know, it's like how many more people get to create their passion project that just wouldn't be able to otherwise, again, because of this like money wall. And so that's something like very, very cool, I think, to look forward to that I imagine is gonna happen uh in the same way that it happened with uh the French New Wave. So that's something that I think is awesome. I also think one thing, this is not a redeeming quality, this is a negative quality. One thing a lot of people talk about is the environmental impact of AI and things like that. That's actually really maybe the most common thing I see is people are like, it's bad for the environment. And uh this is also something where it's like, I hope it's not bad for and unfortunately, I don't think there's a way to like stop the AI or freeze it now that it's you know, we're already like going. But I do hope that we do see, you know, even though I use the AI and stuff, I do hope we elect the people and we have the right governmental structures. It's we need to, you know, this hyper-rich and people destroying the environment is definitely not good, and there needs to be limitations on those kinds of things. And I think a lot of people think that I just like don't care about the environment, you know. But it's like unfortunately the cat's out of the bag. But I really hope we put laws in place to like protect people. I even saw, like, I don't know if you saw this, but today Bernie Sanders proposing something like the that we have in Alaska where oil companies are paying the citizens of Alaska to be able to mine there and stuff, and you you know, you have a government fund from these companies and things like that. Maybe we see something like that with AI. Maybe we see, you know, um, I hope that we regulate it correctly and things like that. Even though I use it, I still hope you know we get a handle on it in a way that's smart. And I think a lot of people, I think you can do both. I want us to vote for the right people, but you know, it's also not going to freeze right now until that happens. So it's a very weird, I just wanted to mention that. I think people don't talk about it very much.
SPEAKER_00No, that's good. I'm glad you brought that up, actually. And for those who aren't aware of the environmental impact, uh, all you have to do is a very short Google search to find out what's going on. The uh the major concern is uh water that it takes to uh cool down servers. Um and I mean I'm not an expert in that way, uh, but um yeah, I mean you will see plenty of people speaking into this uh and the controversies surrounding this online and um and big companies just uh as big companies have always done, doing what they do without thinking about the impact of that. So no, I'm glad that you brought that up. I'm curious for you then. Uh is that all of the redeeming qualities you want to talk about? Can I ask you?
SPEAKER_06I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but don't say that's that's good for you.
SPEAKER_00No, I think that's great. Uh so this is uh there's no right or wrong answer to this. It's maybe philosophical, maybe just fun to think about. If if Edgar Allan Poe had access to AI tools, do you think he would have used them?
SPEAKER_06I personally, you know, I'm not a super historian on his life and personality, but from you know, I know, I think he 100% would have been one of the people using the very early image generators to create these like super creepy and weird images. I think he would have been one of the first people on that. Just in general, the idea of like this machine with the collective human, you know, consciousness in it. I it just feels very iconic. It feels like something he would have been doing weird stuff with right away, making all these like super weird videos you see. It's like it just feels like it does match. I don't think he would be using it in the way I'm using it or the way most people use it, but I do think for sure that would have been something he would have wanted to explore and do a bunch of weird stuff with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thanks for that. That's fun. Seth, it was good to have you on today. Yeah, I really appreciate you. We are in different time zones. It's time for you to go night night. Yep. It's time for you to go to bed. It's my morning. I'm about to jump in the shower, and you're gonna hit the hay. So uh, if people want to uh learn more about you, where do you want to send them?
SPEAKER_06The best spot is SethAbstract.com, and on there I have links to my poetry album and my art prints and the secret scavenger hunt, and all everything's there. So if you just go to SethAbstract.com, it's it's all there for you.
SPEAKER_00Right on. All right, thanks, brother. You have a good one.
SPEAKER_06Thank you so much, John.
SPEAKER_00Stay creative. Stay accurate, stay creative.